2007年，蘋果創(chuàng)始人喬布斯與微軟創(chuàng)始人比爾蓋茨參與《華爾街日?qǐng)?bào)》旗下數(shù)碼科技網(wǎng)站主辦的科技和媒體界的D5高峰會(huì)議，兩人暢談了微軟與蘋果的發(fā)展、彼此的看法還有世人眼中的種種誤解。這是喬布斯與比爾蓋茨最后一次的同臺(tái)對(duì)話。5年過(guò)去了，就讓我們來(lái)回顧一下這場(chǎng)經(jīng)典的對(duì)話。

Host: The first question that I am kind of interested in asking what you think each has contributed to the computer and technology industry, starting with you, Steve, for Bill and vice versa.
主持人：第一個(gè)我挺感興趣想問(wèn)的是你們覺(jué)得彼此對(duì)計(jì)算機(jī)和科技行業(yè)的貢獻(xiàn)分別是哪些喬布斯，你先來(lái)說(shuō)說(shuō)蓋茨，然后再交換。

Jobs: I think the biggest thing was that Bill was really focused on software, before almost anybody else had a clue it was really the software.
喬布斯：最關(guān)鍵的一點(diǎn)是蓋茨非常專注于軟件而且是在大家都還搞不清什么是真正的軟件時(shí)就開(kāi)始了。

Host: Bill, how about the contribution of Steve and Apple?
主持人：蓋茨，你說(shuō)說(shuō)喬布斯和蘋果的貢獻(xiàn)？

Bill: First, I want to clarify I am not fake Steve Jobs.
蓋茨 ：首先我想澄清，我不是“假的喬布斯”（博客上的一個(gè)玩笑）

Host: Actually I looked at an Apple ad from 1978 It was a print ad that shows you how ancient it was. And it said, thousands of people have discovered the Apple Computer.
主持人：事實(shí)上，我還看了一個(gè)1978年的蘋果廣告是份印刷廣告，所以可以看出這是多么久遠(yuǎn)前的事了.廣告是這樣說(shuō)的，上千人發(fā)現(xiàn)了蘋果電腦。

Jobs: We had some very strange ads back then. There was one that was in the kitchen. And there was a woman that looked like the wife, and she was typing the recipes on the computer, with her husband looking on approvingly on the back.Stuff like that…
喬布斯：那個(gè)時(shí)候我們確實(shí)有不少古怪的廣告比如有一個(gè)廣告取景在廚房有個(gè)看起來(lái)像是主婦的女人， 在用電腦輸入菜譜，而他的老公在身后贊許地看著她.類似這樣的...

Host: Some people here, but I don't think most people know there was actually a Microsoft software on that Apple II Computer. Do you want to talk about what happened there? How that occurred?
主持人：這里有些人可能知道，不過(guò)我想大多數(shù)人都不知道蘋果二代電腦里其實(shí)還裝了微軟的軟件。你能說(shuō)說(shuō)這是怎么一回事嗎？是怎么發(fā)生的？

Bill：The original Apple II BASIC, the integer BASIC,we had nothing to do with it. And then there was a floating-point one,where I mostly worked with Woz on that.
蓋茨 ：最早的蘋果二代用的是基于整數(shù)運(yùn)算的Basic操作系統(tǒng)，我們完全沒(méi)有參與。后來(lái)改版成支持浮點(diǎn)運(yùn)算的那個(gè)（就有微軟參與了），這個(gè)項(xiàng)目主要是我和沃茲尼亞克一起做的...

Jobs: Let me tell the story. We are getting a lot of input that people want this BASIC to be floating point. Please! Please make this floating point. We are begging Woz.
喬布斯：讓我來(lái)說(shuō)這個(gè)故事吧，我們得到很多反饋，用戶希望Basic操作系統(tǒng)能支持浮點(diǎn)運(yùn)算，我們都在求沃茲尼亞克求求你！求求你讓它支持浮點(diǎn)運(yùn)算吧。

Host: Who is "we"? How many people at Apple?
主持人：這里“我們”指的是誰(shuí)？有多少蘋果的人這樣要求？

Jobs: Well, me.We are begging Woz to make this floating point. He just never does it. He wrote it by hand on paper.
喬布斯：這個(gè)，其實(shí)就我一個(gè)。我們都求沃茲尼亞克讓它支持浮點(diǎn)運(yùn)算。他就是一直不肯做。他只是寫在紙上。

Host: How much was it? I think you were telling us earlier.
主持人：蘋果給了你多少錢？你前面好像提到過(guò)。

Bill: Oh, $31,000. For the floating point BASIC. And I flew out to Apple and spent two days there getting the cassette…The cassette tapes were the main ways people stored things at the time. And, you know, that was fun. So we were working together. The schedules were uncertain. The quality was uncertain. And the price...When Steve first came up, it was gonna be an a lot cheaper computer than it end up being. But that was fine.So we made this bet that this paradigm shift would be the graphic interface. Particularly the Macintosh will make it happen with 128K of memory. 22k of which was for the screen buffer, 14k was for the operating system.
蓋茨： 哦，3萬(wàn)1千美金。來(lái)提供支持浮點(diǎn)運(yùn)算的BASIC操作系統(tǒng)。我飛到蘋果總部，花了兩天的時(shí)間把那磁帶搞定...磁帶是那個(gè)時(shí)代的主要存儲(chǔ)工具。你可以想象，那很有意思。我們?cè)谝黄鸸ぷ?，沒(méi)有確定的日程計(jì)劃，沒(méi)有明確的配置要求，價(jià)格也都還不定...喬布斯原來(lái)設(shè)想的電腦比最后實(shí)際推出的要便宜很多。不過(guò)這也沒(méi)什么，所以我們賭了圖形界面會(huì)是下一個(gè)革新，尤其是蘋果電腦會(huì)用其128K的內(nèi)存讓這一切變成可能，屏顯緩存22K，操作系統(tǒng)14K。

Host: 14K?!
主持人：14K?!

Bill: We were actually negotiating a deal to invest and make some commitment with Gil Amelio. Next thing I know, Steve called me and said, "Don't worry about that negotiation with Gil Amelio，you can just talk to me now."
蓋茨： 那是我們正在和Gil Amelio（蘋果當(dāng)時(shí)的CEO）談一筆投資交易后來(lái)沒(méi)多久，喬布斯打電話給我說(shuō)：“不用和Gil Amelio談了，現(xiàn)在你可以直接和我談了?！保▎滩妓够貧w蘋果了）

How do you look at yourself in this landscape today? You are competitors in certain ways. We watched the commercials.You get annoyed at each other from time to time. I have to confess I like the PC guy.
主持人：在今天的大環(huán)境下你們是如何看待彼此的？在某些方面，你們是競(jìng)爭(zhēng)對(duì)手。我們都看了那些廣告。你們都會(huì)時(shí)不時(shí)因?yàn)閷?duì)方而惱火，我得坦白我挺喜歡那個(gè)廣告里代表PC的人的

Jobs: Yes, he is great. I like him.You know the art of those commercials is not to be mean, but actually for the guys to like each other.
喬布斯：是啊，他很棒啊。我挺喜歡他的。說(shuō)這些廣告很藝術(shù)就是因?yàn)樗鼈儾皇菫榱俗孭C和Mac相互苛求。而是讓他們相互喜歡

Bill: Thanks!
蓋茨：謝謝！

Jobs: PC guys are great.They got a great heart.
喬布斯：用PC的人很棒??！他們心地善良。

Bill: In a few cases like the Zune, if you go over to that group. They think of Apple as the competitor. They love the fact that Apple has created a gigantic market. And they are gonna try and come in and contribute something to that. We love them, 'coz they are all customers. The same processors essentially that the Mac had this is one of those great ironies，that they were switching away from that processor, while the Xbox 360 was adopting it. But for good reasons, actually in both cases. We try and do things that way. So that was the development system for the early people getting their software ready for the introduction of Xbox 360.
蓋茨： 有幾個(gè)例子比如做Zune（微軟的類似iPod產(chǎn)品）的那個(gè)小組。他們會(huì)把蘋果當(dāng)作競(jìng)爭(zhēng)對(duì)手，他們?yōu)樘O果創(chuàng)造了個(gè)那么巨大的市場(chǎng)而感到高興，他們也會(huì)參與進(jìn)來(lái)并努力作點(diǎn)自己的貢獻(xiàn)，我們很喜歡他們，因?yàn)樗麄兌际俏覀儯╥Pod）的用戶，（Xbox 360）用的是和Mac一樣的處理器。這是我們認(rèn)識(shí)上反差最大的事之一，在蘋果放棄那個(gè)處理器的時(shí)候（該處理器在移動(dòng)方面有欠缺）。XBox 360正開(kāi)始采用它（XBox不需要移動(dòng)應(yīng)用）。不過(guò)兩者雖然做法不同，但都有各自的道理。我們努力做到從實(shí)際需求出發(fā)。所以XBox早期員工就是用的這個(gè)開(kāi)發(fā)系統(tǒng)來(lái)推出Xbox 360需要的軟件部分。

Jobs: And we never ran an ad on that.
喬布斯：我們可從未為此打過(guò)廣告。

Bill: I see. Admirable restraint. That's wonderful restraint.
蓋茨：明白。有節(jié)制，很有節(jié)制。

Jobs: There were hundreds of them.
喬布斯：（盡管其他產(chǎn)品）我們有上百個(gè)廣告。

Bill: Steve is so known for his restraints.
蓋茨：?jiǎn)滩妓乖凇坝泄?jié)制”方面太出名了

Host: I assume you carry tablet PC.I don't know what brand it is. Maybe you change them up. I don't know. You obviously carry a Macbook Pro, I would guess.
主持人：我猜你隨身會(huì)帶個(gè)平板PC電腦，當(dāng)然不知道是哪個(gè)牌子的。也許你換著用？我不清楚。你一定帶著一個(gè)MacBook Pro，我猜。

Jobs: Yeah. Well, and an iPhone.
喬布斯：是的。而且還有一個(gè)iPhone。

Host: You have one?
主持人：你帶了個(gè)iPhone?

Jobs: I do.
喬布斯：是的。

Host: Right here?
主持人：就在身邊？

Jobs: Yes.
喬布斯：是啊。

Host: He has one. He took it out before. Really. Is the iPhone and some of the other smartphone.?I know you believe the iPhone is much better than the other smartphones at the moment. But are these things.. are they just computers in a different form factor?
主持人：他帶著。他前面還拿出來(lái)用過(guò)。iPhone和其他智能手機(jī)是不是就是...當(dāng)然我知道你覺(jué)得目前iPhone比其他手機(jī)都要好很多。這些手機(jī)…他們是不是就是另一種形式的電腦呢？

Jobs: You know we are working on some things that I can't talk about
喬布斯：你知道我們正在開(kāi)發(fā)一些我目前還不能談?wù)摰臇|西（iPad?)

Host: Again.
主持人：又來(lái)了...

Jobs: Again, yeah.
喬布斯：是啊，還是不行。

Host: Very beautiful, yeah! There used to be a saying, isn't it at Apple… Gonna blow us away, though, when you can talk about it. Blow us away, wow, it's great. There used to be a saying at Apple
主持人：一定“超級(jí)美麗”（喬布斯產(chǎn)品介紹時(shí)常說(shuō)的話）！從前有一句專門用來(lái)描述蘋果的話...當(dāng)你可以談?wù)撃莻€(gè)東西時(shí)，一定會(huì)讓我們“超級(jí)震驚”，“無(wú)與倫比”（都是喬布斯的口頭禪）以前有一句話描述蘋果的話是這樣說(shuō)的。

Jobs: Isn't it funny, a ship that leaks from the top?
喬布斯：一艘頂部會(huì)漏水的船一定很搞笑吧？

Host: That's kind of like a sweater without sleeves is a vest.
主持人：這就有點(diǎn)像說(shuō)“沒(méi)袖子的毛衣是背心”（等于白說(shuō)）

Jobs: That's what they used to say about me when I was in my 20s.
喬布斯：（表情嚴(yán)肅）那是他們?cè)?jīng)用來(lái)說(shuō)我的，當(dāng)我還是20幾歲的時(shí)候

Host: I am gonna ask a more personal question. We have just a minute before going to open up for questions. What's the greatest -I'm not gonna call this a Barbara Walters moment and ask you what tree you'd like to be, but…She would love to be Barbara Walters, let me just tell you. No, I would not. What's the greatest misunderstanding...
主持人：我要問(wèn)一個(gè)更個(gè)人的問(wèn)題，再一分鐘我們就開(kāi)始觀者提問(wèn)。你們之間最大的誤會(huì)是…我不會(huì)把這個(gè)稱為是芭芭拉·沃爾特斯（NBC著名主持人）時(shí)刻，問(wèn)你想成為怎樣的一棵樹(shù)（芭芭拉曾問(wèn)過(guò)赫本這個(gè)很“出名”的問(wèn)題）。我插一句，其實(shí)她很想做芭芭拉·沃爾特斯，我沒(méi)有。你們之間最大的誤會(huì)是...

Jobs: Ding...
喬布斯：叮（時(shí)間到了）...

Host: Thank you, your relationship? You're obviously gonna go down in history, history books already set, kind of thing. But what's the greatest misunderstanding in your relationship and about each other? What would you say about this idea of cat fight? Which one of the many?
主持人：謝謝你，喬布斯。 你們彼此關(guān)系上的最大誤會(huì)是什么？毫無(wú)疑問(wèn)你們會(huì)被記錄史冊(cè)，這段歷史可以說(shuō)已經(jīng)塵埃落定，你們彼此之間最大的誤會(huì)是什么？你對(duì)比如“貓狗大戰(zhàn)”這樣的說(shuō)法怎么看，眾多說(shuō)法中哪個(gè)比較準(zhǔn)確？

Jobs: We've kept our marriage secret for over a decade now.
喬布斯：我們秘密結(jié)婚的事已經(jīng)隱瞞了十多年了。

Host: Canada! That trip to Canada!
主持人：加拿大！一定是去加拿大那次吧?。幽么笤试S同性結(jié)婚）

Jobs: Generally, we were both the youngest guys in the room, individually or together. I am about 6 months older than he is, but roughly the same age. And now when we are working at our respective companies, I don't know about you, but I am the oldest guy in the room, most of the time. That's why I love being here.
喬布斯：一般來(lái)說(shuō)，在那個(gè)時(shí)代，我們總是房間里最年輕的人,無(wú)論是單獨(dú)還是我們一起的時(shí)候，我比他大差不多6個(gè)月，不過(guò)我們基本上算是一樣大，現(xiàn)在我們?cè)诟髯怨纠铮也恢滥阍趺礃?，大多?shù)時(shí)候，我是房間里最老的那個(gè)了。這也是為什么我喜歡來(lái)這里。

Host: Happy to oblige.
主持人：非常樂(lè)意你來(lái)。很樂(lè)意。

Jobs: I think of most things in life as either a Bob Dylan or a Beatles song. But there is that one line in that one Beatles song. You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead. That's clearly true here.
喬布斯：我認(rèn)為人生中大部分事情都可以用鮑勃·迪倫或者披頭士的歌來(lái)解釋。有一首披頭士的歌里就有這樣一句“前方蜿蜒無(wú)邊的路再漫長(zhǎng)也比不上你我之間的記憶”這用在我們身上很確切。

Host: Sweet. You know what? I think we should just end it here. I now have a little tear right here. Thank you very much!
主持人：好溫馨！我想我們應(yīng)該就此打住，你說(shuō)呢？我的眼眶都有點(diǎn)濕潤(rùn)了。非常感謝！